Comments on: IF Challenge Day #2: IF is Not About Starvation. Why You Still Need to Eat

By: Mike OD

Mike OD — Fri, 23 May 2008 15:43:18 +0000

Jennifer - Carb cycling is just high and low days of carbs. Some do low carbs on non-weight training and then just add a little higher carb pwo on weight training days. Others may do a full week of lower carbs and using the weekend to carb back up. Most of these numbers are low and not meant to give someone free reign to eat pasta all weekend, as that will just put on fat. Something like 30-40g is on the low end, and 60-150g is on the higher end. The amounts vary by the person, their activity level and how much fat loss they are seeing. Just start of slow/lower on the carbs pwo (not a ton) and see how your body responds. You can add little by little until you find your particular number that works for you in weight loss. Personally I don’t count calories…but you need to be in deficit to lose fat. Some people go way too low, but then cycle back up higher calorie days to trick the metabolism (like professional bodybuilders/figure models getting ready for a show). Again all those numbers are based more on consistently eating the same amount and do not take into account any higher or lower cycling days. Cycling is the trick to get results, and why I get paid the big bucks.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Fri, 23 May 2008 00:04:32 +0000

Mike - can you talk a bit more about carb cycling? Specifically PWO meals? In response to a guy on today’s post (5/22) you recommended protein + carb (fruit/whole food complex carbs) for PWO meal. If my PWO meal is around 6pm, and my goal is fat loss, could I include some fruit PWO also?

Also, above you mention that usually women should stay above 1200 calories per day. When I figure my BMR, it says 1533 kcals/day. Do IFers need to pay attention to that?

By: Mike OD

Mike OD — Thu, 22 May 2008 12:45:43 +0000

Katie - Like mentioned above you can cycle lower with higher days….that’s why I like the weekday IF and weekend more open (ideally to get some more calories in). As for pwo in the evening I would say play around with it and just see how you feel. It’s better IMO to fast in the AM (as you are already in that fasting state) rather than too early in the PM. Of course you don’t want your PM meal too late to overly mess up your GH response. I say if you do a pwo meal like 8pm-ish to make it mostly some protein and healthy fats (don’t overload on carbs that late). Like I said, play around with the IF hours to see how your energy levels are. Remember there are no real set rules, just what you can apply to your life and get positive results with!

By: Katie B

Katie B — Thu, 22 May 2008 05:11:59 +0000

Wow Mike, thanks for the above posts (to Jennifer). They answer all the questions I’ve been thinking about lately. Actually almost all. What about not eating at all after a workout? For example, my eating window is 8 hours, generally 9 am to 5 pm, then my workouts are at 7. So I’m working out fasted and not eating at all afterwards. My goal is fat loss. Do you think this will backfire? I can try to move my eating window to encompass my workouts, but I like the way it works for my daily schedule right now.

And thanks for the notes about too few calories. I just started using fitday.com, and apparently I’m barely reaching 1000 calories per day. That’s an eye-opener! Time to up the food… although I don’t know how, I’m full all the time as it is!

By: Mike OD

Mike OD — Tue, 20 May 2008 04:02:41 +0000

Jennifer - signs of hypothyroidism include: (low thyroid function which happens when calories are too low for too long)
* Increased sensitivity to cold
* Constipation
* Pale, dry skin
* A puffy face
* Hoarse voice
* An elevated blood cholesterol level
* Unexplained weight gain
* Muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness
* Pain, stiffness or swelling in your joints
* Muscle weakness
* Heavier than normal menstrual periods
* Depression
* Thinning/loss of hair, Brittle Nails
you can read more at http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hypothyroidism/DS00353/DSECTION=2

If you are eating more on the weekends (non-IF days), do not show any symptoms above and still are losing weight….you should be doing ok. Typically anything less than 1200 calories is not recommended for women….but there are ways to get around it with calorie cycling days. Just watch out for anything listed above and you should be ok. That’s why the non-IF days are there…to make sure the above does not happen.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Tue, 20 May 2008 01:37:49 +0000

mike, thanks for being patient with my questions. What do you mean when you say, “If you’re not getting enough calories during the week”? How will I know? I do not IF on weekends at all.

By: Mike OD

Mike OD — Tue, 20 May 2008 00:20:32 +0000

Jennifer - With your eating window of noon-8pm I would still try to aim for 3 meals. Maybe something like Noon-eat, 3pm-eat, 6pm workout, 8pm-eat. Does that work? Again it’s about making sure you get enough protein for the muscles and dividing up the calories. If you feel you are still not getting enough calories during the week, then I would not IF weekends and try to eat normally there. Again calories have to be in deficit and your hormones have to be saying “burn fat”….aka get rid of sugar and get good protein and healthy fats. You won’t go into starvation mode with just 5 days of low calorie eating…takes longer (hence I recommended a non IF day every 7-10days).

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Mon, 19 May 2008 20:54:33 +0000

So, by eating two meals on these fast days, this is ok? I’m a little hungry by the time I work out at 430ish, but I can wait until that PWO meal so I can work out fasted. I don’t want my body to think i’m starving myself. And in some of your other posts (I think) you and others are getting in three meals in that 8 hour eating window.

By: Mike OD

Mike OD — Mon, 19 May 2008 15:55:01 +0000

Jennifer - Good questions, I’ll try to get them all answered as best I can. Remember that like eating all day long, IF can have many variables. So it is important to make sure that what you are doing is working, and if it is not then you need to switch things up. That being said:
- Ideally your workouts should be in a fasted state (or as much as you can). Where it is later in the day, just try not to eat a couple hours pre-workout. You should have enough stored glycogen to get through the workout.
- The goal is to use up all your glycogen during the weight training or intervals, and then burn fat afterwards with extra activity. So do your workout, keep it short and intense and then add in some walking or other movements for another 30min to keep the fat burning.
- If you can add in some 30min activity in the AM also when you are fasted from overnight that may help in additional calories being burned from fat
- Remember it’s still about total calories for the day, so there has to be a slight deficit for the body to want to burn energy from the fat stores
- Protein at every meal is key. Unless you are needing it, I would say skip the complex non-veggie carbs unless it is after a workout. After all, you want to burn fat for energy…not the carbs you are eating. That’s why a higher fat/lower carb based diet can get better fat loss.
- Sugar is not your friend, as it signals fat storage. Just tell yourself everytime you eat sugar “I dont want to burn fat for the next 3-4 hours” as that is what you are telling your body hormonally.
- You could try more carb cycling to keep the carbs low weekdays, and then have a little more flexibility on the weekends to eat more.
- Use the rule of thumb, if carbs are up during a meal…fat needs to go down…and vise versa. Having them both high at a meal is DISASTER for fat loss efforts.

Hope that helps, please feel free to experiement and come back with any other questions you have. I know you will find something that works for you!

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Sun, 18 May 2008 21:36:38 +0000

Mike,

Could you give me some feedback regarding my IF schedule? My goal is fat loss, but obviously would like to maintain muscle. I’m a 5’10 female and 165 pounds. I think my body fat is about 22%, or maybe more?

I currently have been fasting for a few weeks (about 3 times a week) from 8pm – noon the next day. Each week, I’ve also tried a 24 hour fast where I’ve fasted from around 6pm – 6pm the following night. I work at a school, so it is easy for me to fast until noon and then have my first meal which consists of a piece of protein (about the size of my palm), a salad, and cooked vegetables. Sometimes I’ll have some starchy carb in there too like a portion of a potato.

I’m doing body weight work outs 3 times a week and I usually combine that with either a 30 minute fast walk or 15 minutes of HIIT. This workout typically will begin between 4-5pm, and then I usually wait an hour before I have my PWO meal. This meal is similar to my lunch meal. Again, sometimes I’ll have a starchy carb in there. I generally eat until I feel full.

I’ve been trying different things…for example, sometimes I’ll have an apple around 3:30. Anyway, I’ve read lots of your posts, and I’m also trying to take in more fat, while limiting processed carbs. Desserts and sugary snacks can be a downfall.

Do you have any advice or thoughts on what I’m currently doing? Should I be trying to get another meal in before I work out? I would eventually like to fast 5x a week, leaving the weekends more open.

Thanks for such informative blog posts!