Comments on: IF Overview and Roundup for Challenge http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/ Intermittent Fasting, Simplicity for Health, Building Muscle and Fat Loss, Simplicity for Freedom to be Happy Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:19:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-849 Mike OD Mon, 12 May 2008 14:05:33 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-849 Sarena - Keep it simple. Meat+Fat+Veggies for meals, Meat+Carbs pwo (veggies are non-starch,starch based veg/grains/etc fall into carbs). So when you hear "carbs", it's mostly talking about the starch based ones, not vegetables like spinach, broccoli, etc. If you mess up a meal once in a while, don't sweat it. Use the common rule if fats are higher, carbs should be lower....and if carbs are higher, fats should be lower. Great thing about IF is some people still seem to do well even if they are higher carb intake. (although best results will be higher fat/mod protein/cycled carbs) Sarena - Keep it simple. Meat+Fat+Veggies for meals, Meat+Carbs pwo (veggies are non-starch,starch based veg/grains/etc fall into carbs). So when you hear “carbs”, it’s mostly talking about the starch based ones, not vegetables like spinach, broccoli, etc. If you mess up a meal once in a while, don’t sweat it. Use the common rule if fats are higher, carbs should be lower….and if carbs are higher, fats should be lower. Great thing about IF is some people still seem to do well even if they are higher carb intake. (although best results will be higher fat/mod protein/cycled carbs)

]]> By: Sarena Kopciel http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-848 Sarena Kopciel Mon, 12 May 2008 10:36:00 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-848 Just curious here as to food planning. I have been eating carbs at every meal--my carbs are veggies basically green leafy ones! Yet I have read recently that "carbs" are not needed at each and every meal--perhaps with only carb intake PWO. So my question is are the carbs that are "not needed" those of the starchy variety or any and all carbs? If this has been written elsewhere already, please refer me there MOD! But how would one go about best structuring their meals with regard to macronutrient contents? Just curious here as to food planning. I have been eating carbs at every meal–my carbs are veggies basically green leafy ones! Yet I have read recently that “carbs” are not needed at each and every meal–perhaps with only carb intake PWO. So my question is are the carbs that are “not needed” those of the starchy variety or any and all carbs?

If this has been written elsewhere already, please refer me there MOD! But how would one go about best structuring their meals with regard to macronutrient contents?

]]> By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-844 Mike OD Mon, 12 May 2008 02:50:05 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-844 Maciej - Make sure you are getting at least 15-16 hours for IF, as you need it that long to get the right hormonal triggers going. As for your BF and performance, I honestly have no idea where you are right now...so I can't even guess. There is no reason you can see great results...as many do. Plenty of people have <10% BF on IF protocols. But you have to also take into effect other factors that go with any diet...such as carb intake, insulin control, total calories, etc.<strong>Realistically you should be able to drop 1-2% BF per week if you are getting all your calories/ratios correctly on IF (possible more to start..but 1-2% is a good estimate...of course the lower you go..the harder it will be to lower the BF).</strong> Best results are seen with people getting moderate protein, higher fat and lower carbs (and keeping the majority of the daily amount in the pwo feeding window). Benefit of IF seen is that once hormonally adapted to it, people can still see great results even if their carb intake does goes higher. Of course sleep and recovery play into it. All the same rules apply like any other weight loss plan...but it is just easier not to sweat about food all day and the shorter windows make it hard to really overeat. Find what works for you so you keep with it consistently, tweak your ratios of fat/carb as needed, get enough protein, stay away from sugar, drink plenty of water, get enough activity, have an "up" calorie day once every 7-10 days and you will see great results. Maciej - Make sure you are getting at least 15-16 hours for IF, as you need it that long to get the right hormonal triggers going. As for your BF and performance, I honestly have no idea where you are right now…so I can’t even guess. There is no reason you can see great results…as many do. Plenty of people have <10% BF on IF protocols. But you have to also take into effect other factors that go with any diet...such as carb intake, insulin control, total calories, etc.Realistically you should be able to drop 1-2% BF per week if you are getting all your calories/ratios correctly on IF (possible more to start..but 1-2% is a good estimate…of course the lower you go..the harder it will be to lower the BF). Best results are seen with people getting moderate protein, higher fat and lower carbs (and keeping the majority of the daily amount in the pwo feeding window). Benefit of IF seen is that once hormonally adapted to it, people can still see great results even if their carb intake does goes higher. Of course sleep and recovery play into it. All the same rules apply like any other weight loss plan…but it is just easier not to sweat about food all day and the shorter windows make it hard to really overeat. Find what works for you so you keep with it consistently, tweak your ratios of fat/carb as needed, get enough protein, stay away from sugar, drink plenty of water, get enough activity, have an “up” calorie day once every 7-10 days and you will see great results.

]]> By: Maciej http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-842 Maciej Mon, 12 May 2008 02:11:51 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-842 Mike Just started IF 3-4 times a week with a minimum of 15 hrs between meals. I aim to eat Paleo, however I'm not superstrict on it. Don't eat/drink junk, and most meals are created from scratch so I know my base nutrition is good, and has been for years. This is just relatively recent discovery. I also started crossfit 3 months ago, and aim for 5 days a week (usually 6am). I'm 32, 88kg, 175cm, lost some fat since crossfit and am very happy with improving performance. Just have a question re: my realistic expectations for lowering bodyfat in this manner with an aim to make it a lifestyly is say 1month, 3 month, 6 month periods? I don't want to have an expectation of being <10% bodyfat with a 4 min Fran if it's totally wild. In your opinion, what changes would you expect to see at those time periods? Your advice is appreciated. Mike

Just started IF 3-4 times a week with a minimum of 15 hrs between meals. I aim to eat Paleo, however I’m not superstrict on it. Don’t eat/drink junk, and most meals are created from scratch so I know my base nutrition is good, and has been for years. This is just relatively recent discovery.

I also started crossfit 3 months ago, and aim for 5 days a week (usually 6am). I’m 32, 88kg, 175cm, lost some fat since crossfit and am very happy with improving performance. Just have a question re: my realistic expectations for lowering bodyfat in this manner with an aim to make it a lifestyly is say 1month, 3 month, 6 month periods? I don’t want to have an expectation of being <10% bodyfat with a 4 min Fran if it’s totally wild. In your opinion, what changes would you expect to see at those time periods?
Your advice is appreciated.

]]> By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-839 Mike OD Sun, 11 May 2008 20:36:52 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-839 Joe - The reason "chronic" elevated cortisol is not mentioned with IF, is because it is <strong>not a real factor</strong>! Chronic starvation may be, but that is not what true IF is. As for IF being a stressor, of course it is! You are putting your body under stress to get an anabolic response! You are correct in assuming that "starvation" is not good over a long period of time, however <strong>you are jumping the gun assuming IF is about starving yourself,</strong> as you get plenty of calories in...you just condense the eating windows to take time off from digestion. People doing IF the right way can lose fat, keep or gain muscle, and improve health....so does that still sound like starvation or malnutrition? Does losing fat and gaining muscle happen in high chronic cortisol environments? No, of course not. Cortisol is a necessary part of overall body design and function (as it rises as you sleep naturally...and peaks in the morning so you can wakeup), as if you find someone that can not produce any...then you will find other health issues. <strong>You want your body to break down and rebuild at the cellular level, otherwise how do you repair diseased and malfunctioning cells?</strong> Lifting weights raises cortisol and is catabolic too, should we all stop that? Looking at short term cortisol "peaks" during the day (vs damaging high chronic levels) is a paranoid line of thinking that you need a positive nitrogen balance 24/7 for optimal muscle (supplement companies anyone?). Whereas you also have muscle sparing hormones such as ketones (which does well when carb cycling to pwo windows especially fruits, which is fructose and goes to liver glycogen replenishment first...and ketosis is based on that being low or empty) and GH (get some deep sleep for that) that prevent it from happening and keep cortisol in check. Your body can also recycle it's own recirculating amino acids from muscle breakdown into rebuilding them again. <strong>Also if your cortisol is going to be an issue then you would also suffer from hyperinsulinia and insulin resistance since excessive cortisol means an elevated blood sugar. So if you are doing IF and you can increase insulin sensitivity, lower insulin levels, lower inflammation (see the resources sections for more studies)...how does one actually suffer from chronic cortisol levels (outside of any other stressors)? The answer is that you don't as IF can also show lowered blood cortisol levels as well.</strong> Cortisol has a half life of about an hour after it rises, so it does goes down. It's the chronic elevated levels of cortisol from ongoing stressors such as inflammation and environmental stimulus (what we call stressing out) that are dangerous. IF is not a chronic stressor, it is acute. Fasting for days would start to signal the body into a chronic state of stress, starvation. However IF reduced inflammation, so it will lower cortisol through that pathways as well. For optimal health you need periods of acute catabolic activity (not chronic) for the body to respond in an anabolic way. <strong>If you want to focus on a bigger cause of chronic cortisol is lack of sleep, excessive aerobic activity and daily stress (or lack of relaxation)</strong>...those are the real factors to worry about. To be successful with IF you have to keep your fasts brief and eat enough calories so you are not starving yourself. <strong>IF with little sleep...can be disasterous. IF with consistent little daily calories...can lead to muscle loss. IF done with the right nutrition and lifestyle factors...gets results.</strong> I've already said many times that more is not better when it comes to fasting...like in the post above. IF may not be for everyone, but it can have tremendous benefits and create a happier lifestyle for many who do it correctly. Your body doesn't waste muscle as fast as supplement companies who want you to keep positive nitrogen retention with all their supplements want you to believe. <strong>In the end cortisol's function is as a blood glucose regulator, IF and ketosis promote a fat burning environment and can lower cortisol output.</strong> There are other factors more important in cortisol control such as proper sleep and recovery. <strong>Symptoms of chronic cortisol will be fatigue (adrenal exhaustion), mood swings, brain fog, muscle loss, weight gain in the face and stomach (as a result of high blood sugar/insulin) and elevated blood pressure. Again...not something people on IF have ever reported.</strong> Honestly if one's goal is muscle gain/retention you could play around with BCAA (esp leucine) supplementation during the day....as long as it is easy to digest (does not stimulate a nervous system response) and has no sugars to elicit an insulin response. The jury is still out on how effective it could be....but it may help increase muscle retention adding more BCAAs to the circulating blood stream for use while muscle repair and breakdown is occurring. It also may have interest especially to those that may do longer based aerobic workouts (whether fasted or not). Here's an <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17512018?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" rel="nofollow">interesting study</a> that does say Leucine supplementation did improve body composition in rats that went through periods of restriction and refeeding. Joe - The reason “chronic” elevated cortisol is not mentioned with IF, is because it is not a real factor! Chronic starvation may be, but that is not what true IF is. As for IF being a stressor, of course it is! You are putting your body under stress to get an anabolic response! You are correct in assuming that “starvation” is not good over a long period of time, however you are jumping the gun assuming IF is about starving yourself, as you get plenty of calories in…you just condense the eating windows to take time off from digestion. People doing IF the right way can lose fat, keep or gain muscle, and improve health….so does that still sound like starvation or malnutrition? Does losing fat and gaining muscle happen in high chronic cortisol environments? No, of course not. Cortisol is a necessary part of overall body design and function (as it rises as you sleep naturally…and peaks in the morning so you can wakeup), as if you find someone that can not produce any…then you will find other health issues. You want your body to break down and rebuild at the cellular level, otherwise how do you repair diseased and malfunctioning cells? Lifting weights raises cortisol and is catabolic too, should we all stop that? Looking at short term cortisol “peaks” during the day (vs damaging high chronic levels) is a paranoid line of thinking that you need a positive nitrogen balance 24/7 for optimal muscle (supplement companies anyone?). Whereas you also have muscle sparing hormones such as ketones (which does well when carb cycling to pwo windows especially fruits, which is fructose and goes to liver glycogen replenishment first…and ketosis is based on that being low or empty) and GH (get some deep sleep for that) that prevent it from happening and keep cortisol in check. Your body can also recycle it’s own recirculating amino acids from muscle breakdown into rebuilding them again. Also if your cortisol is going to be an issue then you would also suffer from hyperinsulinia and insulin resistance since excessive cortisol means an elevated blood sugar. So if you are doing IF and you can increase insulin sensitivity, lower insulin levels, lower inflammation (see the resources sections for more studies)…how does one actually suffer from chronic cortisol levels (outside of any other stressors)? The answer is that you don’t as IF can also show lowered blood cortisol levels as well. Cortisol has a half life of about an hour after it rises, so it does goes down. It’s the chronic elevated levels of cortisol from ongoing stressors such as inflammation and environmental stimulus (what we call stressing out) that are dangerous. IF is not a chronic stressor, it is acute. Fasting for days would start to signal the body into a chronic state of stress, starvation. However IF reduced inflammation, so it will lower cortisol through that pathways as well. For optimal health you need periods of acute catabolic activity (not chronic) for the body to respond in an anabolic way. If you want to focus on a bigger cause of chronic cortisol is lack of sleep, excessive aerobic activity and daily stress (or lack of relaxation)…those are the real factors to worry about. To be successful with IF you have to keep your fasts brief and eat enough calories so you are not starving yourself. IF with little sleep…can be disasterous. IF with consistent little daily calories…can lead to muscle loss. IF done with the right nutrition and lifestyle factors…gets results. I’ve already said many times that more is not better when it comes to fasting…like in the post above. IF may not be for everyone, but it can have tremendous benefits and create a happier lifestyle for many who do it correctly. Your body doesn’t waste muscle as fast as supplement companies who want you to keep positive nitrogen retention with all their supplements want you to believe. In the end cortisol’s function is as a blood glucose regulator, IF and ketosis promote a fat burning environment and can lower cortisol output. There are other factors more important in cortisol control such as proper sleep and recovery. Symptoms of chronic cortisol will be fatigue (adrenal exhaustion), mood swings, brain fog, muscle loss, weight gain in the face and stomach (as a result of high blood sugar/insulin) and elevated blood pressure. Again…not something people on IF have ever reported.

Honestly if one’s goal is muscle gain/retention you could play around with BCAA (esp leucine) supplementation during the day….as long as it is easy to digest (does not stimulate a nervous system response) and has no sugars to elicit an insulin response. The jury is still out on how effective it could be….but it may help increase muscle retention adding more BCAAs to the circulating blood stream for use while muscle repair and breakdown is occurring. It also may have interest especially to those that may do longer based aerobic workouts (whether fasted or not). Here’s an interesting study that does say Leucine supplementation did improve body composition in rats that went through periods of restriction and refeeding.

]]> By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-836 Mike OD Sun, 11 May 2008 16:27:39 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-836 Louise - Good luck with the challenge! Getting down to 10% is very ambitious, but never impossible! Will take some tweaking on your part as you go with your carb intake and keeping up the active lifestyle activities (will never call it cardio). Remember the IF is not a quick weight loss scheme, but a lifestyle approach to lasting results for health and fitness. 3 24-hr days is going to be alot, so either make sure you are getting plenty of healthy calories in on the off days or you may want to try with 2-24hr fasts to start...to see how your body reacts. Anything can be changed and fine tuned as you continue on your journey, just focus and it will happen! Louise - Good luck with the challenge! Getting down to 10% is very ambitious, but never impossible! Will take some tweaking on your part as you go with your carb intake and keeping up the active lifestyle activities (will never call it cardio). Remember the IF is not a quick weight loss scheme, but a lifestyle approach to lasting results for health and fitness. 3 24-hr days is going to be alot, so either make sure you are getting plenty of healthy calories in on the off days or you may want to try with 2-24hr fasts to start…to see how your body reacts. Anything can be changed and fine tuned as you continue on your journey, just focus and it will happen!

]]> By: Louise http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-834 Louise Sun, 11 May 2008 13:44:58 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-834 Hi Mike, Been reading for a while, also a reader over at Modern Forager. Love what you guys are doing. I'm joining your challenge tomorrow, just thought I'd drop you a line. I've been doing IF for about 3 weeks already, I just want to commit to this lifestyle further. I fast 24hrs Monday, Wed and Friday and eat paleo style Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun. I'm about 20% body fat, but I'd love to be more like 10% and gain a little more muscle. I really want to increase fitness. My husband is a personal trainer, so he's got my weights sessions covered twice a week, I'm going to walk for an hour on the other days. As my fitness increases I'll walk/run until I'm a runner! So basically, my goal for the thirty days is: lose some body fat, gain some more muscle tone, perfect my IF technique and become a bonafide runner. Wish me luck! I'm off to set the alarm for my walk before work. Hi Mike,

Been reading for a while, also a reader over at Modern Forager. Love what you guys are doing.

I’m joining your challenge tomorrow, just thought I’d drop you a line. I’ve been doing IF for about 3 weeks already, I just want to commit to this lifestyle further. I fast 24hrs Monday, Wed and Friday and eat paleo style Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun.

I’m about 20% body fat, but I’d love to be more like 10% and gain a little more muscle. I really want to increase fitness. My husband is a personal trainer, so he’s got my weights sessions covered twice a week, I’m going to walk for an hour on the other days. As my fitness increases I’ll walk/run until I’m a runner!

So basically, my goal for the thirty days is: lose some body fat, gain some more muscle tone, perfect my IF technique and become a bonafide runner.

Wish me luck! I’m off to set the alarm for my walk before work.

]]> By: Mike OD http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-832 Mike OD Sun, 11 May 2008 00:45:53 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-832 Kyle - That's the purpose....give it a shot...see what can happen. The rest....well....is up to you, but no action will get you no results 100% of the time. ;) Kyle - That’s the purpose….give it a shot…see what can happen. The rest….well….is up to you, but no action will get you no results 100% of the time. ;)

]]> By: Kyle http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-831 Kyle Sun, 11 May 2008 00:03:15 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-831 Mike--You're on. I've been saying I'm going to start IF either since I read Fast 5 or found the thread on Pmenu (can't remember which came first but either way its probably been close to a year). I'd say the 30 day challenge is enough to finally get me to :do something: or get off the pot. Mike–You’re on. I’ve been saying I’m going to start IF either since I read Fast 5 or found the thread on Pmenu (can’t remember which came first but either way its probably been close to a year). I’d say the 30 day challenge is enough to finally get me to :do something: or get off the pot.

]]> By: Joe http://www.theiflife.com/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-816 Joe Sat, 10 May 2008 08:40:04 +0000 http://projectfit.org/iflifeblog/2008/05/09/if-overview-and-roundup-for-challenge/#comment-816 Fasting is putting your body under stress. I see no mention of the fact that fasting causes cortisol levels to rise in the body and the implications of that. The number one stressor for a hunter gatherer is starvation. Trick your body into thinking it is starving and you are playing with fire. Good luck! Fasting is putting your body under stress. I see no mention of the fact that fasting causes cortisol levels to rise in the body and the implications of that. The number one stressor for a hunter gatherer is starvation. Trick your body into thinking it is starving and you are playing with fire.

Good luck!

]]>