Apr 23 2008

More on Muscle Building - Reader Q&A

18 Responses to “More on Muscle Building - Reader Q&A”

1. # Tanyaon 24 Apr 2008 at 7:23 am

   “(so sugars, breads, pasta or processed carbs) ”

   You meant to write ‘no’ rather than ’so’, right?

2. # jasonon 24 Apr 2008 at 8:05 am

   What kind of protein/carb/fat ratio would you say is good for putting on lean mass? Is it okay to go high fat (like 60 - 70%) and only moderate protein (20%) or is it better to go high protein and moderate fat? Or is it more a matter of just eating lots and lots of calories, period?

   Thanks

3. # Ian's Dadon 24 Apr 2008 at 8:16 am

   Mike,

   On the subject of building muscle, I thought you might be interested in this link to a video discussing myostatin. It’s family/work safe:

   http://videos.howstuffworks.com/sciencentral/2698-myostatin-and-muscle-growth-video.htm

   Thomas

4. # Benon 24 Apr 2008 at 9:03 am

   Mike,

   You’ve got a great site going here. You are doing a great job of distilling and presenting some complex information. I am wondering if you can answer a question regarding rest between sets.

   One can obviously lift more weight per set if one takes more rest, say 3+ minutes, between sets. Why is the shorter rest period, with its necessarily lower weight per set, better for building muscle?

   Thanks,
   Ben

5. # Mike ODon 24 Apr 2008 at 9:43 am

   Tanya - Opps, Yes…typo there, it is supposed to be “No”. I’ll fix it.

   Jason - Good question. You do need enough protein to support the muscle turnover and rebuilding needs. It depends also on your activity level. Some may do well on 0.6-0.8 g/lb of bw…others may need it around 1g/lb of bw. If you are doing 2-3 good workouts a week, I would say aim for 0.8-1g/lb of bw. As for fat, those % again can vary but again it does come down to a total cal intake question of needs as well. If you are more concerned about staying lean, then the carbs would be the thing to keep an eye on. You need some but not a ton of them to replenish glycogen. Everyone responds a little differently due to individualistic insulin resistance factors. On non-workout days you would need less carbs, on workout days you could add some in (whole food sources) pwo. In summation…start with your protein needs first at 0.8-1 g/lb of bw (which is alot!), then add in carbs to maintain muscle but not gain fat (this could be anywhere from 50g-150/day) and then get plenty of healthy fats. Your fats could end up anywhere from 40%-60%. Go by how you feel and if you are seeing gains. Total calories are a factor, as well as how “fat adapted” your metabolism is…as some do better on high fat, while others need some extra carbs.

   Thomas - Thanks for the link…I’ll check it out.

   Ben - You will always have things geared toward more strength…or more muscle size (hypertrophy)…and all arguments in between. If you are training for strength only, people will say that you need 2-3 minutes to rest for max efforts. However if you are training for muscle hypertrophy, using little rest helps to break down the muscles quicker even though the weights are lower. Also you get a good T-boost from both going heavy and high intensity(shorter rests). A good overall program will cover both ends of those training philosophies. Also people’s builds (muscle fiber makeup) may dictate which they respond better to…as some do better with heavy weights and grow…and others need the higher volume to grow. Like I said…a good overall program should cycle between 5×5 and 3×10 for max strength and size gains. (as someone I know that has trained at Westside BB has said that they do sets of 5×5 for 30sec rest as well (same weight all sets)…and they make some strong people there so there is something to be said for that). Me personally…I like the total workouts to be short and intense as I have other stuff to do and don’t want to live in a gym (granted I am no competitive powerlifter or bodybuilder too)…so 30-60sec rests are what I like. Unless you are a competitive powerlifter or going only for maximum strength/exposiveness in all out efforts….keep your rest periods short (60sec max) for muscle gain.

   In the end, what you eat is still going to be where 85-90% of your muscle gains come from….so a person doing a simple short and quick 3×10 workout with great nutrition will get better gains than someone with the most perfectly planned workout and half assed nutritional effort. Get your protein in and then eat more healthy calories till you see the gains starting

6. # Benon 24 Apr 2008 at 3:03 pm

   Mike,

   Thanks for the reply. Like you, I have other things to do and I would like my workouts to be short and intense. I have been on a 5×5 plan based on Mark Rippetoe’s books, and as the weights have gone up (and consequently, the rest between sets), my workouts are taking longer and longer. I’d like my workout to come in at 45 minutes or less, but 3-4 lifts @ 5×5 w/ 3 minutes between sets takes over an hour, especially if I properly warm-up for each exercise. I have been slowly gaining strength, but very little mass. Once I get through this cycle, I will give the 3×10 w/ short rest a try.

   The idea that muscle fiber type should dictate the workout is interesting. I am probably on the slow-twitch side — I was a swimmer in high school, a pretty decent rower in college, and have run and cycled off and on throughout my life. I was thinking the heavy weight 5×5 program would stimulate some of those slow twitch fibers to repurpose themselves to produce more power.

   Here’s a question on food: shouldn’t your workout drive your hunger, which will drive the amount you eat? My thinking is that a workout that properly stimulates muscle growth will consequently stimulate your appetite. Or to gain muscle do you need to eat even when you are not hungry? Something about that conflicts with the paleo “listening to one’s body” mindset.

   -Ben

7. # Mike ODon 24 Apr 2008 at 3:37 pm

   Ben - Interesting point. But is the whole instinctive preset for the body to really “eat to get bigger muscles?”…or does it just want you to eat to recover? There’s a difference there. Also…I can’t eat right after a workout…as my stomach would not be happy with a big meal at that point…has something to do with high GH levels which I believe DeVany hinted at one time. (kind of like why you want to puke, and some do, after doing many consecutive sets of squats). But I have plenty an appetite later on…and can usually eat alot…so it’s never really been a problem to eat (but I need to pile in the food to start gaining consistently). I found your body will always have a nice set area (+ or - 10lbs) in which is can easily exist…trying to get out of that comfort zone and pack on more lbs is a challenge for some and does require extra effort. As for the workouts, try the 30 sec rest tempos. The weights may go down for the workouts but you may find an increase in overall strength. Like I said..I got that from someone who trained at Westside BB, so if they do it…it must work to some degree. (has something to do with the theory of being able to create deeper muscle tears and increase blood flow for more muscle regeneration that full rest periods do not do) Something tells me you will still get plenty strong and be able to build more “sizable” muscle gains on shorter rests. (again hypertrophy vs pure strength training concepts)

8. # The IF Life - Intermittent Fasting and Instant Freedom » Building Muscle 101: Master the Basicson 25 Apr 2008 at 8:05 pm

   [...] More on Muscle Building - Reader Q&A [...]

9. # Keenanon 26 Apr 2008 at 12:28 pm

   @Mike & Ben:

   I struggled for awhile to gain weight on an IF/Evolutionary fitness plan, but to gain weight I did exactly what Ben mentioned: I simply lifted heavier and let my appetite follow the lift.

   I’ve been doing interesting set combos lately, with powerlifting moves. I’ll do 3×5, 5×3, then 5×1 with a <1 minute rest between sets, except for the 5×1s, where I use only a 5-10 second rest between each rep. That’s 35 reps total for each lift, which supposedly puts you in the strength/hypertrophy optimal range.

   I’ll start a workout with either DLs or Squats, then do incline press or weighted dips, then weighted pullups or standing pulldowns. During and after all of this, I’ll do explosive bodyweight exercises. For these, I’ll do pullups where I try to get as much air as possible on the top of the pullup and catch the bar on the way down (I can get a good 6″ consistently!) or dips where I launch myself backwards off of the dip bars and land in a squat. I’ll also do box jumps, one-armed pullup negatives, and a few shoulder moves for my messed up shoulder cuffs (4 years of competitive swimming).

   I’ll fuel these workouts with unlimited amounts of clean, paleo food, respecting my 8 hour eating window.

   I’ve put on a pretty clean 6-8lbs in the past few months by doing this. It’s the first time I’ve been able to gain weight since eating low-carb/paleo.

10. # Mike ODon 26 Apr 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Keenan - Great comment….so true. Lift heavy, eat plenty, sleep…and the results will follow. Most people who do not gain make the same mistakes…lack of sleep, too much working out, not enough eating (healthy).

11. # Jasonon 07 May 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Mike,

    Just wondering if you can give me some advice here:

    Currently I’m 5′ 8″, 137lbs, around 7-8 percent BF. My diet is 95% Paleo, very low carb, moderate protein, and high fat (usually the ratio is around 10% carb, 25% protein, 65% fat, averaging around 2300 calories). I also have been doing IF for the past 3 months.

    I’ve been doing crossfit for a year but recently decided that it’s time to try to put on some good weight. So, on the workout end, I’ve decided to do Rippetoe’s Starting Strength Program and just concentrate on getting basic slow lifts for awhile.

    However, the eating part is where I am kind of stumped. Obviously since I am eating paleo, Rippetoe’s “gallon of milk a day idea” is out ,but I know I need more calories. So:

    (1) How much more calories do I need but I am not sure how much more.

    (2) I know I nned to eat more protein but after that, what else should I eat to add calorie? More Fat (fat is around 150-170g rught now) or more carb (carb is around 60-70g a day right now)?

    (2) What about PWO? What kind of “paleo carb” is good to consume after a workout and how much of it should I eat?

    Thanks

12. # Mike ODon 07 May 2008 at 7:58 pm

    Jason - Gaining weight comes down to 3 easy steps…lift heavy, eat, sleep. Depending on how much other activity you do (running around, sports, etc) will depend how many total calories you will need. Most people will not start gaining weight/muscle until they start eating at least 0.8-1g of protein/lb of bodyweight. 2300 calories is not going to put on the mass….you may need somewhere around 3000-3500. Again…depends on your lifestyle, I would say drop all metcons as you don’t need to worry about extra activity and conditioning, but if you choose to keep it in there just know you will need to eat more. Your choices for carbs don’t have to be 100% paleo…but stick to whole foods like sweet potatoes, rice, etc. If you can stand milk it might be worth a try to just cycle…only because it is a cheap and easy source of extra protein and calories. You could try drinking a glass of whole milk w/ a scoop of whey with every meal. (I’m usually not a fan of Whey, but if you need the protein to pack on the lbs it can help…of course whole foods like steak, eggs and meat are top priority every meal…just add the small drink along with the meal, but never substitute for whole foods) Make sure you get at least 3 meals over 8 hours if you are doing the daily IF…as again you need the calories. If you need to alternate IF days to get in more calories you can try that as well. Hope that helps. Good luck!

13. # jasonon 08 May 2008 at 7:10 am

    Thanks, Mike! Great Advice as always. Reading your post made me realize that I’m actually not getting 3 meals in my eating window. I usually break fast around 11:00. Snack, eat lunch a hour later, and then snack my way through the afternoon and then have dinner at 7:00. That’s probably why I was having a hard time eating more than 2,500 calories a day. I will give the whole milk idea a try. I’m determined to gain more weight this time. More than anything I just want to get better “leverage” when lifting, since you can imagine how much fun doing something like Fran or Elizabeth is when you barely weigh 135# yourself!

    One last question: from what you wrote to me and elsewhere, I gather that it is possible to “bulk” (hate that word!) while eating a low carb diet? Now I don’t have a problem upping my protein or fat (love fat!), but I am really wary of upping my carb intake too much. In the past, whenever I’ve done that, I would “bulked” up but not in a good way! But then again, I was not eating Paleo before, so maybe better carb selection would make a difference?

    The reason I asked is because from you and crossfit I got the idea that a low carb/moderate protein/high fat diet is fantastic for shedding BF and getting very lean (and it definitely worked for me) but I was wondering if a high cal version of that would work for gaining mass?

14. # Mike ODon 08 May 2008 at 10:05 am

    Jason - Your daily carb intake even for muscle replenishment doesn’t have to be that high. When in doubt, keep an eye on it and up it very slowly. Like if you are at 40g/day now…up it on workout days to 60-80g (and keep the non-workout days lower). If you feel like you are “bonking” you can also try to go out and have a carb up weekend. Just remember to keep it to whole foods. Watch out with milk as it does have sugar…so you could even try mixing 4oz of milk w/ 4oz of water and 1 scoop whey 3x a day with each meal. Loads of possibilities, but you have to monitor and know what is going on. If it is working, then you stick with it….if it is not working you change something up (in the case of gaining mass, you eat more in most cases). Protein is going to be key too, so make sure you are getting enough of that (at least 1gr per lb of bw). Keep your carbs in check (and cycle properly) and you should be able to put on clean muscle with little fat. (most fat on weight gain programs is due to “glycogen spillover” effect…aka too many carbs and muscles are all full).

15. # Scotton 16 Jun 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Hi Mike,

    Great post! I’ve been lurking around here for quite a while (directed from the fitnessblackbook).

    When you say “Keep your carbs in check” in the above reply, are you referring to carbohydrates in general or just “bad” refined carbohydrates like breads, pasta, etc. If it is in general, wouldn’t this violate the idea of “eating as much healthy food as you like” like you mention in the IF report.?

    IE: When monitoring my carbs, should I take low-GI wholefood carbohydrates into account..like an apple or other fruit/veggies? Can excessive fruit/veggies contribute to the “glycogen spill over” effect you mentioned above or does this ownly apply to carbohydrates that cause insulin spikes?

    Maybe you can shed some light on this for me…

    Thanks!

    Scott

16. # Mike ODon 16 Jun 2008 at 1:09 pm

    Scott - If you are eating “natural” carbs….fruits…vegetables…etc. You should be fine. You can do things like time them when your insulin sensitivity is peaked such as post workout (or even doing IF will also increase sensitivity). If your goal is muscle gain then you can pretty much eat healthy as much as you like…if you notice any spillover into fat then you may need to taper it down or do better with timing….as you still have to look at total calories for the day and activity levels. Fruits are healthy, but I would stick to the ones with more water/fiber/antioxidants….things like bananas are mostly sugar while berries are lower GI and provide more antioxidants.

17. # Tim Lundeenon 20 Jul 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Have you seen Dr Berstein’s Diabetes Solution book? He has a wonderful section on how to exercise. Basic strategy is to start as hard as you can, then back off as your muscles get tired, minimize reps. Do the reps slowly, so your muscles get tired. The book also has a lot of good information about insulin, diet, etc whether or not you are diabetic.

    Jenny Ruhl’s book, Blood Sugar 101, is also excellent in terms of metabolism information, diet help, whether or not you are diabetic.

    When you start to gain weight, it is as you say, because you have higher insulin levels. These higher insulin levels typically go along with damange to your pancreas. When people are diagnosed as diabetic, they have lost 50% to 80% of their pancreatic function . When you are prediabetic with tummy fat, you have probably lost 20-30% of your pancreatic function. Once you start to lose pancreatic function, you are on a spiral to more and faster loss, so it is critical to start working on it early. Your blog is right on in terms of diet, omega-3s, exercise. Good stuff, thanks!

18. # Mike ODon 21 Jul 2008 at 9:27 am

    Tim - No haven’t read the Diabetes solution but the go hard at first and keep reps slowly does go along with depleting muscle glycogen and trying to increase muscle sensitivity. Great info, thanks for sharing.

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